The Four Color Media Monitor

CBR interviewed artist Stanley Lau about his career, describing how he immigrated to the USA and began his jobs, which are mainly for covers. On which note:

One of the top comic book cover artists in the entire comic book industry is Stanley Lau, best known as Artgerm. His variant covers are some of the most in-demand covers in the world of comic book collecting, and he has drawn variant covers for almost every major comic book company around, but you'll probably best know him for his many DC and Marvel covers. DC even released an entire poster book based on Artgerm covers.

Seriously, it's a shame a talented artist spends on so much energy on a gimmick that's done more harm than good to the medium, because the publishers are relying more on short term monetary gains than on merit inside the book. And while it's great to employ talented artists, it can still be awfully expensive to develop tons of variant covers that only appeal to the speculator market, which, as I've made clear before, is not what comicdom should be all about. And CBR has the gall to sugarcoat that away.

The interview later turns to a short-lived DC book titled The Great Ten:

Let's back up a little bit. I remember that The Great Ten had a deal where every issue had a spotlight cover of one of the ten members of The Great Ten, but then the series was cut off before there were ten issues.

Yeah, only nine issues.

So, did you draw the last two spotlight covers, which I think were (let me check), Socialist Red Guardsman and Mother of Champions. Did you ever work up anything for those two, or did you know ahead of time that nine was going to be it?

I didn't know way ahead of time. Maybe an issue before that, okay, but I never drew those last two spotlight covers.

Those were really fun spotlight books.

Yeah, that bunch of characters were so weird, but it was cool.

The part about a character named a socialist is what's troubling, and as a result, if the comic was weird, it would have to be so for all the wrong reasons. It's one thing to spotlight characters who're citizens of a Cold War country, like Red Star in New Teen Titans, but if they're naming a character Socialist Red Guardsman for the sake of emphasizing socialism in a normalized manner, that's dismaying. Now, here's the part about how he draws Supergirl:

It's got to be really crazy now, sort of bringing your career full circle, that you got to design the new Supergirl costume. That has to be an amazing experience,

Yes, but it's funny, after working with DC for many years, this is the first time I started asking about designing a costume for them. It has never come across my mind that I wanted to design a cotume, but if there was one that I really wanted to do, Supergirl is an easy choice, because I love her so much. I'm glad that they allowed me to do that. It was a lot of fun.

What would you say was your major inspiration for this costume? What was your biggest influence in the design?

Okay, let me be very honest that I don't even read comics, so I don't know many comic characters or the history of those characters, even though I draw them all the time. But for Supergirl, there's always this perception or this image of Supergirl I really want to portray, which I call "The Supergirl Next Door" look. So I want to make it as approachable, as human as possible, but also strong, and maybe sporty and and fun. So this is something that I always wanted to portray and with this particular design that I just did, I did exactly that. So I wanted her to have a strong look, which is why I have her wearing a very tight fitness compression suit, which is very common for fitness wear, and then the dress is actually a tennis-inspired skirt, very high-cut. It covered the belly button, but you allow a little window to see the abs. Because I really like abs. I really want to show how strong she is. I like the bit of sexiness without looking to expose too much. Just showing a little. I know that they are not very keen on showing the abs, but I really wanted to do it. So what I did was that I added the turtleneck for her to cover more on top, so that I could cut short her skirt. I also cut off her cape, so that it has better movement. So, that's pretty much it.

The design reminds me a bit of Michael Turner's Supergirl. He was another guy who was big on covers. It evokes that pretty well.

Yeah, but design-wise, he was more about exposing skin.

Yeah, that's true. He did like to go for that in a big way.

He likes to go really low. I don't think that really fits Supergirl's persona as well.

I won't say Turner was perfect, but that was still nothing compared to the embarrassment of his willingness to draw covers for Identity Crisis, and while Rags Morales was the one guilty of drawing one of the worst written sexual assault scenes in comics history, the whole notion Turner would lend his talents even to the covers of such an abomination that minimizes sexual violence was a slap in the face as much to female fans as to male ones, and a stain on his resume.

I do think the story Turner was drawing back in 2004 reintroducing Supergirl in the pages of the combined Superman/Batman series was very weak, more style than substance to the point where even eye candy wasn't enough to salvage it, but if exposing skin alone is the complaint, that's missing the boat. Funny thing about Turner's take on Kara Zor-El with writer Jeph Loeb is that on the one hand, she wasn't drawn as busty as Artgerm may have drawn her. On the other hand, I don't understand what's so special about the long sleeves combined with a bare midriff design. It looks ridiculous, and runs the gauntlet of suggesting all involved are cowering at the idea of giving Supergirl a sleeveless outfit, which bare midriff designs or tank tops would look more stylish and appealing with. Why Artgerm wanted to repeat that part of the design from 2 decades ago I have no idea. And to say something like Supergirl exposing skin, even if not totally naked, isn't part of her persona, that runs the gauntlet of again making it sound like a fictional character is a real person, and even ignores that in the Bronze Age, Kara was drawn with some fancy designs like miniskirts that showed her legs. If Lau's veering towards PC, he's not showing much bravery, which does a disfavor to Supergirl's original creators from around the Silver/Bronze Ages.

And then, fascinating he doesn't actually read the comics he draws covers for, more on which anon.

What I find fascinating is how, over the years, you've occasionally tried some very different approaches to your covers. Like, I remember your Captain Atom covers, they were SO different from everything else you had been doing to that point. SO different. So are you constantly trying to challenge yourself with new approaches?

In general, I don't have the burden of presenting the character in a certain way, like I did on those Captain Atom covers. Like I said, I don't read comics, so generally, I'm working on variant covers, which aren't the main cover anyway. So my job with my covers is to bring in a new audience. I'm not beholden to draw in a specific traditional Western/American way. I'm never going to be to draw like Jim Lee or any of those legends, because I didn't grow up in their culture. So what I can offer to bring in a new audience, people who are more into video games, and into Asian culture. I want to appeal to that audience. My job is to bring in new blood who will want to buy my variant cover because they like my artwork, some of whom don't even read comics normally, and hopefully one day they will open up and try to read it and become a new comic fan. And because I don't have a strong commitment to comic culture, I'm more free to play around with different styles and approaches. Of course, I mainly do digital covers, but at the same time, I also do a lot of weird covers that may not sell as well, but it gives my collectors something new, so it's more fun for them to collect. Because it's not always the same, right? If you can sort of look at some of my recent covers, like if you look at my recent One Bad Day: Two-Face cover....

Yeah, that was a much darker approach.

Yeah, and it was like a whole new person was coming out of his face. Or when you look at the recent cover I did for Harley Quinn: Black, White, and Red. That one was inspired by the video game, Persona. So, I try to bring different influences into the comics, and do different variations, which hopefully more people can enjoy.

No matter how talented Artgerm may be, his choice of HQ as an assignment, variant cover or otherwise, is distasteful and beneath his talents. And discovering he's not so committed to interior storytelling and more to the speculator market, simply because he only does the covers, variant, digital or otherwise, that's decidedly troubling too. He indicates he's aware the buyers of pamphlets with his art may not read the comic, if at all, and he's otherwise okay with that? Very appalling. Upon reading this, I am starting to wonder just how much it's worth it to admire his career. It's one thing to appeal to people who like Asian culture, but the part about video games is another hint at what's wrong with his approach.

That's fascinating. So I noticed you've been doing a few recent pieces for fun with Marvel Rivals characters. Obviously, Marvel Rivals is really hot right now, that style and approach to the characters. So for something like that, do you try to keep up with the current trends, or do you just go by what people are asking for?

Yeah, those covers were done just for fun. I'm a teacher, and I face an audience of students every week, so I get to hear and look at what they like. For me, my job is to inspire them. So that's why I draw Marvel Rivals, because my students keep talking about it. I said, "Okay, I can draw some."

Frankly, I don't think many people are asking for much of anything from DC/Marvel today, and if Lau's not in the game for promoting the actual storytelling, regardless of merit, then how is he inspiring anybody? Unfortunately, if sales aren't what they could be (actual figures continue to remain concealed by ICV2, in example), that says all you need to know.

What's interesting about social media to me is that your students have never lived a life WITHOUT social media, and you first came up when it was really not much of a thing at all, but it is obviously a big thing for you now (as it is for most top artists). What's the number one lesson that you try to teach your students about special media?

I think it is very important for them to understand that with social media, there are two sides to social media. You can't just be someone who posts your work and expect people just to like it without interacting. That's why the social aspect came in. You need to learn to pay it forward. You have to share other artists' work, and maybe they'll begin to share yours, as well. But I think you also have to be mindful that social media doesn't mean that much in the end. Many people try to chase followers, but I tell them, honestly, of all of my followers, maybe 0.001% actually purchases anything from me. That means your followers are not exclusive to you. Sometimes they're a fan of a character, and they followed you because you drew that character once. They just follow you because they thought that piece was pretty, but that doesn't mean that they are actually committed to you, or will buy something from you. Do not buy the illusion that just because you have a certain number of followers, it guarantees success.

Most importantly, when it comes to social media, is the product that you are trying to sell. That means always focusing on your artwork, and don't let your social media or your audience sway you or change how you approach your work. The number one fan on your social media should be yourself. You should always prioritize your personal growth, explorations, and inspiration over other people's.

Interesting he makes this point, because in the past decade, you had quite a few jelly-spined creators succumbing to anonymous, obnoxious trolls on what was then called Twitter (and today X), and this made an utter farce out of art and business when one considers the cancel culture that resulted. And many of said trolls doubtless never bought anything from any artists and writers who were the biggest victims, didn't pay a cent to them and never even saved samples of their art from the internet to computer disk either. But, while Lau's got valid points here, it doesn't excuse that he's given signs he's not truly dedicated to the art of storytelling, let alone merit for the same inside the covers. The interview also brings up the topic of AI:

That's hilarious. What's so funny is that even before AI, once you became so popular, there were many people trying to draw like you anyways, even before the computers were doing it. But I guess, as they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Exactly, I agree. But AI is definitely a big disruption in the art world, because many young artists, they feel like there is no future in art because of AI. They think that AI is going to replace them. In fact, it also has affected some of our intake for our school, because many parents start to get concerned about whether they should send their kids to the school if they are just going to be replaced by A.I.

That's interesting.

It's very important to understand that, objectively speaking, AI WILL take over quite a lot of art-related jobs, for sure, especially in terms of game development and all kinds of creative development. But the two things to look at are, are you an artist who facilitates the development of a movie or an anime or a game, or are you an artist where your art is the final product? For me, my art is the final product. That cannot be replaced by A.I, because I can tell you that the reason why people buy my covers is because they're done by Artgerm. It's not done by A.I. Since I'm producing the final product, and my name is used to sell the art. That is different from someone who is in the development pipeline of a game where certain segments are being replaced by AI. Or, for example, in animation nowadays, the in-betweens can be done with A.I. easily. So the in-between artists may not be relevant or AS relevant as before. So that is the reality. But eventually, no matter how good AI has become, if they can even pretend to create things that LOOK like my work, the bottom line is, it is not mine, right? That's not what people are paying for. I do understand that the rise of A.I. has led some artists to do more traditional art, both to stand out, and also so that they can't be replaced by A.I. because it is all hand-drawn.

Okay, he speaks a just argument here, that AI can't be allowed to replace human artists, and it's unfortunate if any potential students are discouraged by the concern they'll be turned away from employment by companies who don't want to pay for a real life artist to do work for them. If there's any students practicing art that isn't drawn on computer, that's actually doing the right thing, and paying real tribute to what came before the early 2000s, when you had say, Jack Kirby's "swipe" art style, and even some artists who used watercolor techniques. For all we know, the good news in all this mess is that it'll get those who do study illustration to work things out in a simpler manner that doesn't rely too heavily on technology to get the job done. I may have once said it was bothersome if there was too much use of computers for drawing, and now, maybe there's good news around the corner.

You mentioned that you don't read the comics, which is fair enough, but what happens when they give you a book where you don't know the character?

Yeah, I try to make sure I know the character before I commit to a project. For instance, I have comitted to certain covers where I didn't know about the character design, or I thought the character looked like one thing, but she's not, which eventually became really, really difficult to work on. For example, I was asked by DC to work on this cover of the Chetah. So, Cheetah, I knew she was a Wonder Woman enemy, and she was pretty sexy, but with a slight Cheetah-like face, but still mostly human-looking.. So I say yes, and I start the project, and only after I committed, I found out that her latest design is an ACTUAL Cheetah-like creature!

On the one hand, I think it's ludicrous he'd say a villainess is sexy, which I don't think should be considered the case, unless maybe Cheetah could be depicted reforming plausibly. On the other hand, a most interesting revelation, again, that Lau doesn't read the comics he draws variants for, because this was the same guy who, IIRC, drew a variant cover for the Supergirl issue that emphasized LGBT propaganda hurtful to both women and racial minorities. If I were in his position and knew my art was being used to advertise atrocious humilations like that, I'd feel embarrassed. Maybe this is exactly why the whole variant cover craze that went out of control in the past 15 years or so has gone much too far, since it's being exploited for tricking people into buying an equivalent of political spam that's been cunningly disguised. No wonder it's all become so appalling.

And so, it's a real shame Lau's only drawing for the purpose of producing variant covers for an outmoded publication format, and not for wall paintings. There are doubtless digital style illustrations on the wall picture market, and he throws away his talents for something that's only being stored away in vaults where nobody will see it on live display? Good grief. I really wish he'd reevaluate how he's doing things, but alas, I suspect he won't, and plenty of decent illustrations of his will continue to be wasted on farcical directions that don't make the medium any more recognizable in wider society than before.

Labels: animation, Avengers, dc comics, golden calf of LGBT, golden calf of villainy, good artists, marvel comics, msm propaganda, politics, Supergirl, women of dc, Wonder Woman